並前往https://www.audacy.com/podcast/%E5%A6%AE%E5%9C%A8%E8%AA%AA%E6%88%91%E5%9C%A8%E8%81%BD-6495a/episodes/ep15-%E8%B2%93%E5%92%AA%E5%B0%8F%E5%AE%87%E5%AE%99%E5%A6%82%E6%9E%9C%E6%83%B3%E8%AA%8D%E9%A4%8A%E8%B2%93%E5%8F%AF%E4%BB%A5%E5%8E%BB%E5%93%AA%E8%A3%A1%E6%89%BE-e339e