並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep33-%E5%BE%9E%E8%8A%B3%E9%A6%99%E5%96%9C%E5%A5%BD%E4%BE%86%E4%BA%86%E8%A7%A3%E4%B8%80%E5%80%8B%E4%BA%BA-%E6%A4%8D%E7%89%A9%E4%B9%9D%E5%9E%8B%E4%BA%BA%E6%A0%BC-ft-sylvia/id1572783714?i=1000550245992