並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep08-%E8%B2%93%E6%AF%9B%E6%BB%BF%E5%A4%A9%E9%A3%9B-%E6%88%91%E6%83%B3%E4%BD%A0%E6%87%89%E8%A9%B2%E9%83%BD%E5%B7%B2%E7%B6%93%E7%BF%92%E6%85%A3%E4%BA%86%E5%90%A7/id1530825599?i=1000517639620